Cost of Panthers

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    • #4881
      Tiger1996
      Participant

      Totally love this mod, ever since I knew about it.. as I have to thank the developers of this mod for their great work and efforts… With that being said, and without further ado; I do actually have some complaints about the price of the Panther tank.

      Throughout all the ww2 games I have came across so far… Panther tank pretty much always used to be cheaper than the Tiger1 tank.. except that it’s currently the complete opposite only Wikinger Mod ^^

      Originally, I believe it’s undeniable fact that the Panther was mainly designed by the Germans during ww2 primarily for the purpose of being cheaper than the Tiger1 tank. Since that the Tiger was harder to maintain on the battlefield and costed a lot more on the other hand… Hence, I honestly don’t accept how the Panthers currently in Wikinger Mod are more expensive than Tigers somehow!

      However, there is no issue for the Panthers to be later available compared to Tigers, specifically when keeping in mind that this is actually realistic too. Given the fact that Panthers were produced in 1943 and Tigers were produced in 1942 the other way around.

      Nonetheless, having Panthers MORE EXPENSIVE than Tigers is extremely ODD if I might say!
      I do completely understand that this might be due to game balance, but to be honest with you.. if this is the only way to balance the game, then it’s entirely still unjustifiable.

      Not to mention that Panthers aren’t necessarily better than Tigers by the way. Each one has advantages and disadvantages over the other… Therefore nobody can certainly say that either any of them is exactly better than the other one. As there are people who would rather the Panther over the Tiger, but others on the contrary might have a different perspective, I mean that such a matter is highly subjective rather than objective.

      >>>> For instance, or just as an example… Someone who favors the Panther might argue that it’s faster and has quicker turret rotation than the Tiger tank. Excepting the Panther Ausf.D of course… Or that the Panther is “cheaper” than the Tiger. There is no doubt that one of the core advantages of the Panther over the Tiger tank was obviously a cheaper price. Somebody else might also say that the Panther has better gun penetration power due to higher velocity. And of course, someone might say as well that the Panther has better frontal armor than the Tiger due to being more sloped.

      Side note though:
      Why does it say in Wikinger that the armor of the Panther tank is 140mm and not 160mm?? Wasn’t the frontal armor of the Panther 80mm while being sloped at 60 degrees??!! Meaning double the thickness! 80 + 80 = 160mm OR am I wrong here??!!

      >>>> On the other hand, someone who favors the Tiger might argue saying that the Tiger has more accurate gun (88 of course) which allows it to successfully score direct hits on targets located at very far distances. Another one might argue that the Tiger1 was earlier available in the war, while somebody else might argue that the Tiger had better high explosive shells due to higher gun caliber than the Panther’s 75mm gun. Others might argue that the Tiger has thicker side and rear armor than the Panther, which is another advantage for the Tiger. Others might also argue that the Tiger is a bit bigger and thus harder to be knocked out with a single hit, or in other words.. has more health overall.

      You guys see my point here???? My point is both tanks have advantages and disadvantages, therefore you CAN’T say which one is exactly better, but people can choose what they favor accordingly to their own personal preferences!

      SO, I don’t understand why Panthers are more expensive than Tigers in Wikinger Mod, this is clearly contradicting the reality… And I do strongly believe that this also has to change.

      Changing this in my humble opinion can be done in a lot of different methods, for example… Panthers could be all cheaper than Tiger1 tanks, just as supposed.. but in return more “production upgrades” or “tier ups” could be implemented just in order to make it harder to obtain the first Panther. That’s if you really think the Panther should not be any easy to get.

      However, as I clearly stated… I honestly don’t think that simply making the Panther more expensive than Tigers is any good solution at all. This is exactly like if you would make Tiger tanks more expensive than the King Tiger only because somebody thinks it’s more valuable!!! Sorry, but this is inconvenient…

      Thanks everyone for reading 🙂

      • This topic was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Tiger1996.
    • #4883
      Damian
      Participant

      [quote quote=4881]Side note though: Why does it say in Wikinger that the armor of the Panther tank is 140mm and not 160mm?? Wasn’t the frontal armor of the Panther 80mm while being sloped at 60 degrees??!! Meaning double the thickness! 80 + 80 = 160mm OR am I wrong here??!! [/quote]

      Yes, you’re wrong. Panther hull armor was 80mm at 35 degree ~139.5 mm relative armor.

      Also, you’re literally making a point where panther already has a better armor, speed and just so u know gun, cause both panther and tiger need 2 shots to kill a sherman in-game (correct me if I’m wrong about the panther).

      Panther will also penetrated allied heavies more often than Tiger (Tiger pen at 1 km = 99mm, Panther’s 111mm).

      Panther is Tiger+.  Even realistically speaking, Tiger was not so impressive in 1944 and 1945 on western front. Allies had a lot of stuff to penetrate it. Panther was different, cause it had more relative armor and it was sloped.

      You’ve literally answered your own questions why Panther is more expensive than the Tiger so…

      Your only argument is that a better tank should be cheaper, cause it… used less fuel ? question mark ??? even though Panther is literally uber tiger xD

      • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Damian.
      • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Damian.
      • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Damian.
      • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Damian.
    • #4888
      Tiger1996
      Participant

      Thanks for correcting me, yes you are right! Panther tank frontal armor is sloped at 35 degrees and not 60 degrees. My bad 🙂

      However, I didn’t exactly “answer my own question” as I just clarified the advantages and the disadvantages for both tanks.. as I believe that none of them is necessarily better than the other one.

      I believe however that the Panther should be cheaper based on a very solid fact…
      Obviously, the Panther tank costed around 117,100 Reichmarks, and therefore they were able to produce more Panthers (about 6,000 were built) while the Tiger tank costed 250,800 Reichmarks on the other hand, therefore the Germans were unable to produce as much numbers but only about 1,300 units were built.

      So, again… I was wrong about the frontal armor of the Panther. Yet, I do still have a strong point regarding the price of Panthers in comparison to Tigers 😉

      • #4889
        Damian
        Participant

        If you want to balance cost around how cheap it was to make tanks, how about making t-34 cost 5 fuel and Tiger 300???

        Cost is in-game performence. Panther is better than a Tiger in every possible way in most case scenarios. Why it should be cheaper then?

        Because company of heroes has assymetric balance, axis having better tanks, while allies infantry, the only way to keep stuff really balanced is cost.

        If tank A is better than tank B, tank A will cost more. If you wanna be realistic about the cost, then, trust me, axis will lose before they even deploy 1 heavy tank, cause the swarm of allied tanks will kill you 😉

        • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Damian.
      • #4893
        Sebandir
        Participant

        The average cost of production of the T-34 is 142,000 Rubles (1RM = 2 rubles). The cost of production was very different depending on the period of the war or factories. Actually the cost of Panthers production is 120,000 RM – also without exaggeration. 🙂

         

         

        • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Sebandir.
    • #4891
      MeatShieldNZ
      Keymaster

      Most of this has been answered but I think a lot of confusion arises from the Panther being classed as a “Medium” tank in a lot of games.

      Yes the Germans did classify it as medium but this was more to do with its role on the battlefield not its actual size and weight.

      Here is a weight comparison to some allied “heavy” tanks:

      Panther G 45000 KG

      Pershing 41560 KG

      IS-2     46000 KG

      KV-1    46400 KG

      Churchill 41000 KG

       

      Mongalong also nicely sums our pricing calculations up here:  https://wikingeretow.com/faq/wikinger-pricing-3-1-5c-onwards/

       

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